Sunpiper Press: Hello Saul. It's a pleasure
and honor to speak with you.
Saul Williams: Thank
you.
SP: When was the first
time you ever performed in front of an audience? Doesn't
necessarily have to be a poetic performance.
SW: The first time I
performed in front of an audience was.... I don't even know, I
might have been like 4 or 5. I was always doing plays when I was
in school. Actually the two things I would do when I was really
young, like when I was 8 I played Mark Antony in the play Julius
Caesar. But I'd done more before then, primarily reading other
people's poems, like during Easter *laughs* in church. Easter
presentation poems, I forgot about those. *laughs* And Black
History Month, reading Amiri Baraka or Langston Hughes poems and
stuff like that. I've been performing pretty much all my life.
SP: During your spoken
word career, have you ever gotten boo'd on stage? *laughs*
SW: Once!!
SP: Once?
SW: By the Junior
Mafia...
SP: Junior Mafia?
*laughs* What the hell?
SW: *laughs* Yeah, the
only cats that ever boo'd me.
SP: WHY did Junior Mafia
boo you?
SW: They were on
crack...
SP: *laughs*
SW: Because they were supposed to perform after me, and they
just wanted to get on stage. Like, really, the only two times
I've had beef on stage has been surrounding some Bad Boy shit.
*laughs* That's funny.
SP: Really?
SW: Yeah, *laughs* once
was with Junior Mafia at a place in NY, and the other time was
at the "Slam" premier, with Black Rob and the whole Bad Boy
posse. And actually it wasn't me, it was Sonja Sohn on stage
reciting a poem,and they started boo'ing and screaming "Bad
Boy!!" 'cuz Black Rob was supposed to perform.
SP: Can you tell me what
one of your most memorable experiences has been....
SW: THAT!! No, *laughs*
Most memorable in what sense?
SP: Like, a life
changing moment that you decided, this is what I want to do and
how I want to reach people.
SW: Well, A lot of stuff
connected to the film "Slam" was very inspirational and life
changing for me, just because it was a project that I wrote and
I was able to see the effect of having written it and the effect
of the intention I put into it. I got to see that come back to
me, and I still do. I remember specific things like taking the
film to Europe. I remember we went to a film festival in the
Czech Republic, and there were about 1600 students there
watching the film at one time, and they hadn't had the time to
translate the film into their language, so they all were given
headphones, and there was a woman in the back translating the
film as it went on. *laughs* But when it got to the poems, she
would just say "POEM", and not translate it. But that would be
the point where the people would sit on the edge of their seats
and I'd see them like, crying and just really getting into it.
So that was when I learned that when you speak from your gut,
there is no language barrier. When language and expression is
visceral, it goes beyond the borders of language and
communication as we know it. So then it connects to something
that Maya Angelou said, which is 'Anything that a writer writes
should be done with the urgency of having a gun in your mouth'.
Anything you write you should write with the urgency of "these
could be my last words". And I would be at peace with that
because that's how much of myself I put into it. When it does
come from that level, when it does have that sense of urgency
and connection, people really can connect with it, even if they
don't speak the language.
SP: While I was in
Germany for 4 years, I noticed that there is a different
appreciation for the arts in Europe. What is your take on that?
Do you feel there is a huge difference as far as perception,
acceptance and appreciation?
SW: Oh yeah, there's
definitely a greater love of the arts, in particular, poetry,
not only in Europe, but across the world, outside of America.
Poets are revered by nations often as representatives of the
heart of the people and what have you. And here, because of the
whole materialistic nature and foundation of this nation. It's
like, someone claiming to be a poet is treated like a
laughing stock, and people are like, 'well yeah, but what do you
do for money?' So it kind of points to the ways in which
we have been led away from ourselves here in this nation.
SP: So what do you think
America could learn from cultures that put more into the arts
and give it more attention than we do?
SW: I don't know.... I
tell you what I think America needs to do. I feel as if there
has not been enough emphasis placed on education in connection
to finance. I think that being the richest nation in the world,
every kid should be able to get a free education, up and THROUGH
college. And he shouldn't have to join the military in order to
get that. We can afford it, and I think if we did place more
emphasis on that, then we'd be open to learn from poetry and the
arts. I think that we would actually turn out more artists, and
artists that are concerned with the integrity of their work
rather than the marketing possibilities of it. I think
that we're basically not nurturing the youth in the way that
they need to be, especially with regards to the arts.
SP: Well you have
remained true to your work, but was that difficult to do when
you began marketing it and making a living from it?
SW: Well, I definitely
realize now that my entire life was preparing me for what I'm
doing. I mean, I started writing as an MC, and got so into the
stuff I was writing when I was a kid writing rhymes that I was
just like 'yo, take the beat away, I just want to focus on the
words'. So I think one of the things I've been doing
without even realizing it is I've just been focused as a writer
for a long time. But I was studying acting for the majority of
my academic life and so it was always kind of on the side, I
never gave it my full attention. What is it that made me pay
attention to the business side of it? I guess it was when I
realized, after I'd already experienced a little bit of
success. I mean, I remember the first time being handed money
after a reading, and I was like, 'what's this for?' And the
person would be like, 'Well I asked you to come and
participate'. And I laughed, because I was like, that's crazy.
Money for reciting a poem? And I remember the first time getting
paid for acting and laughing at that and being like, oh my God I
can't believe people are giving me money for doing
something that I would do for free.
SP: But you didn't give
it back right? *laughs*
SW: *laughs* No. But
eventually, you realize if that's the case, you start trying to
find a balance between maintaining the integrity of your work
and also realizing that it would be quite a privilege and honor
to be able to live off of your work.
SP: You said you started
out as an MC. There's been lots of comparison between spoken
word and hip hop. Is there one thing you feel sets them apart?
SW: Yeah, nowadays I
think there is. The main distinction between a poet and an MC I
find is, where hip hop is a competitive game, poetry is not
that. An MC is always in competition with other MC's, and often
as a result, especially in the current trend in 'realness' or
what have you, there are cats that believe they must show no
sign of vulnerability. They see vulnerability as a sign of
weakness. Like, the MC that's seen as the 'coolest' is supposed
to be the 'hardest', like a pimp, I have no heart, I have no
feelings, you don't want to fuck with me. But to me, that's a
weakness. I believe that a poet, their strength is in
expressing their vulnerability, in expressing their heart, and
in expressing how much heart they have. And connecting
that to their regular flow of emotions and thoughts and ideas,
so that they find power in expressing those vulnerabilities.
SP: So with that being
said, do you think Slam competitions place a barrier on what a
poet is 'expected' to do?
Want to know what Saul
has to say about Slams?? Check back in our next issue for part 2
of this interview!!
